About us

Profiles

Josephine Stanton

Josephine Stanton My ancestors are a mix of people who emigrated from Scotland, Ireland and England to New Zealand across the nineteenth century. The pioneering spirit of my forebears, looking for new places and new ways alongside commitments to learning and service has served me well. Both my grandmothers went to university, early in the twentieth century when few women did. I think it says a lot about the women that they were and the men who married them. The child of left leaning liberals, I came of age in the 70’s, primed to question everything. I took up feminism, rejected institutional values, embraced writing about liberation of the oppressed and become immersed in the philosophical study of the subjectivity of knowledge.

I somehow contained all this to train in medicine and psychiatry. Having qualified as a psychiatrist I had a sense of competence, I could ‘psychiatrise’ anybody. This meant I had skills in building rapport assessment, formulation, diagnosis and treatment. But there was a hollowness in this. I never stopped looking for more.

Glancing through Johnella Bird’s book 'The Heart's Narrative' on a bookseller’s table at a workshop my interest was instantly engaged in her writing about respectfulness. This was the beginning of a long journey for me, which I am still on, of figuring out how to put into practice the methodology she has developed. In the process of attending her workshops and reading her work I struggled to get my head around her ideas but realized that it had potential for transforming my practice. As I developed embryonic understanding of her ideas and began to integrate them into my work I noticed a shift. I found the work and the people I worked with more interesting. I felt less weight of apparently insoluble problems. I moved away from feeling responsible for doing an assessment, developing a treatment plan and instituting treatment. I moved more into the position of someone with a passionate interest in people’s own ideas and experiences while making my knowledge and skills available for people to take up. People seemed to find me a lot more helpful.

Being able to work with Tania Windelborn as she also took up these ideas has accelerated the movement in my practice. I would have loved to have found the energy to do a randomised controlled trial on Johnella's work. I can see how it could be done and would be keen to support anyone who wants to do it. But I don't have the capacity. It was the enthusiasm Tania and I had for the contribution Johnella's ideas made to our work that led to setting up the precursor to this website, called Collaborative Psychiatry. We had found Johnella’s work so helpful and we wanted it to be as widely available as possible.

My work with Patte took different pathways. The direction was the same, finding practical effective ways to support people to live their best lives according to what had meaning for them. I have worked with her in writing the book, Finding Hope in the Lived Experience of Psychosis: Reflections on Trauma, Use of Power and Re-visioning Psychiatry. The essence of this is the remarkable story of her life and career. It also contains my story and the interweave between both our lives.

Tania Windelborn

Ko Parata te tangata
Ko Kahutianui te whaea
Ko Mamaru te waka
Ko Maungataniwha te maunga
Ko Kenana te marae
Ko Ngatikahu te iwi
Ko Tania Windelborn taku ingoa

I am blessed to have a home on our whanau whenua where I grew up with my Grandparents who I called Mum & Dad.

My education was as an adult student after having my 3 children, it was not the norm to have a University Education in my whanau, they were all hard workers. My yearning for learning was shaped by my grandmother who attended Queen Victoria school and her sister who was a Registered Nurse. My Grandfather, a hard worker and provider, instilled in me there was a world outside of our home listening to politics, keeping up with the news and sporting events; especially the rugby and cricket.

I have worked as a Registered Nurse in a range of areas in mental health, physical health, hospital, community, disability, end of life and currently general practice. I have taken up a range of learning opportunities, gathered up my colleagues - especially Josephine - and from the people I have served, I have trained in various therapeutic modalities, university courses and gained a lot from every learning experience. I have noticed that I keep coming back to what I have learnt from Johnella.

The metaphor of weaving or raranga in the Maori language pulled me towards Johnella's ways of working. I had memories of my grandmother making kete. She followed customs that I never realised at the time were deeply respectful of the art.

The timing, collection and preparation of the flax had to be correct. Making a kete is a stepwise process requiring patience and perseverance.Kete have their own unique stories and history - where the flax is collected, what prompted the weave, who and what it is for. She worked with joy and, seemingly without effort, skillfully and purposely wove. When watching her I knew it was not a chore. She would often waiata looking happy and relaxed as she was creating.

Johnella Bird’s teaching came at a time when I was questioning my nursing practice and my purpose in the field. Evidence-based practices that I trained in are valuable and helpful. However there were times when I felt stuck and needed more. Her work opened up ways that I felt to be in accord with nursing philosophies - holistically orientated, culturally sensitive, embracing spirituality, gender, power, history - all the while mobilizing people and their personal strengths and their own resources; helping to create some movement towards a sense of agency.

It was refreshing to learn about a way of working that was not prescriptive. The work flows showed me ways to stay present with each person, ask meaningful questions, stay open to the answers; exploring each answer to be able to fully understand their experience. Being open, curious and alert to what is happening in the room, the type of language being used supports working together for what is present and what is possible. I notice that I experience people being more interested and vibrant and myself being energised. Johnella Bird’s therapeutic strategies revive my work and each time I visit her therapeutic strategies, I learn something new.

Tribute to Tania by Josephine

Tania Windelborn 29 March 1964 – 23 November 2023

I must have met Tania a couple of decades ago in the early years of this century when she was working as a community mental health nurse in Te Ropu Kimiora, providing mental health services for children, adolescents and whanau. Her vitality, energy, quick wit, and effectiveness in engaging people were obvious at the start. She was always fun to be with as well. We worked hard. Sometimes we felt despairing and overwhelmed, but we never stopped doing the best we could. When we had a chance for a break we’d take it, be it a beach walk, a swim, shopping or finding something to make us laugh. There was always a lot of shared laughter, even when we knew she was dying.

There are so many things I could talk about, so many people whose lives she touched in such important ways, but I’ll restrict myself to two. One was a family we met on 17 December one year. They had a teenage boy with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. OCD. People might joke about their OCD in being too tidy, but when it gets severe it tortures people. This whole family was really suffering. Medication helps a bit but the most effective treatment is a specialised form of CBT, cognitive behaviour therapy. It is hard to do and takes a lot of quite specific support but it is really effective. Even on June 17 there would only be a very small handful of people who could have offered this therapy in the far north, but on 17 December there was no chance for weeks. Hospital in Auckland (five hours’ drive away) was a possibility but they were horrified by this idea. I left Tania with the mannual, a book describing how to do the therapy and went on holiday. When I got back things had really shifted. Tania had studied up the book and delivered the therapy. I was stunned. This was testament to her intellect, her work ethic and her commitment to developing skills and knowledge so she could give of her best, she was always learning , studying, developing herself, always pushing the boundaries in the search for the best way to make a difference.

This was what led to the website we developed together. Having looked all over the world I realised it was an Auckland woman who offered something which could transform our work. Johnella Bird has developed a therapeutic approach which, instead of focusing on finding something wrong and setting out to fix it, focuses on bringing people’s knowledge and resources into conscious awareness and shifting patterns of thinking. Done well, it feels like ordinary talk but it transforms. It is profoundly counter cultural, turning the usual conversational patterns on their head. It is also hard to figure out and get the idea of. We learnt together, mentoring each other. Neither of us got full mastery but there was a lot we could use in our work that people found really helpful. We developed the website because we wanted other people to be able to pick up the sorts of things we had found useful more easily. It was initially called Collaborative Psychiatry and we changed it a few years ago to Talkthatheals.org.

Tania has so much to offer all people. A second example I’ll describe was when we were working in hospital in Starship. There was a highly resourced pakeha woman who was very adept at getting the best for her children. She was insisting that her daughter have Tania as a nurse. When I was pushing back, talking about meeting the needs of the whole unit, her response was, well, of course, everyone wants her because she’s so good. She was good, but she also had something so special to offer Māori.

Though out the process of trying to provide health care in New Zealand we are always looking for Māori clinicians, Tania is a fantastic clinician, and she is Māori. I feel very privileged having worked with her and also having her as a friend. Even when she was in the far north we had great phone calls. She would always get what I was talking about and usually had something helpful to say. We also joined up on holidays and had some great nights out. It was fun having her so close by when she was in Auckland in Hospice CARE, hitting the op shops in Takapuna. We had some very special weekends up in her home in her final months.

A great word for Tania my daughter suggested is whole hearted. She lived her life with her whole heart. She was authentic, she wasn’t perfect but didn’t need to be. She had a directness that some people struggled with. But she was present. She used her gifts with energy and enthusiasm.

Her career also got interrupted by some of the tough stuff which happened to her that I won’t dwell on and she meandered down a few pathways. It was so great to see her back to Te Hiku, in that role as a HIP, Health Improvement Practitioner. She had so much to offer the people she saw, other practitioners and getting involved in training. WE used to talk about how people complain about getting old and how a chance would be a fine thing. She would have made a great old kuia and much as I am grateful for having known her, I am sorry I will miss that.

Patte Randal

Patte Randal I live in Raglan, New Zealand, overlooking Mt Karioi. I am mother to three caring, compassionate, adult sons. I have told my story publicly in many contexts, including our recently published book, so I won’t go into too much detail here. What is clear to me is that life is full of uncertainty, and I have no idea what lies round the next curve, twist, or bend in the road. But I fully embrace the notion that we plan, God chuckles, and I trust that the best is yet to come!

My mother, born in Palestine in 1926, grew up as one of the new generation of Jewish children whose families had returned to the ‘Promised Land’ with Zionist ideals. My father, born in England in 1911, was a British policeman working in Palestine, where they met and married. I was born in London in 1951, shortly after they arrived in the UK to start a new life together, along with my two older siblings. Three more brothers came along in due course. Both my parents valued education highly, having left school early, without qualifications. I completed my doctorate in Psychology and later graduated as a medical doctor in 1980. After coming to New Zealand almost 40 years ago, I spent 2 enriching years working at a small rural hospital and outlying GP clinics within a mainly Māori community. I then trained in psychiatry in Auckland, where I practiced for 30 years.

My specialist interest was working with people with so-called ‘treatment resistant psychotic illness’, a term with which I was never enamoured. I always believed it was our medical approach that was resistant. My understanding of psychosis is partly informed by personal lived experience. Along with Josephine, I have published qualitative research based on talking with doctors who, like me, became patients of psychiatrists.

I have also published research describing an effective multimodal approach I developed to support people who experience extreme states. As a result of my research, I created a person-centred, recovery-focused training course for staff at Buchanan Rehabilitation Centre and subsequently co-authored the ‘Re-covery Model’. Following on from this 'The Gift Box' emerged. It is a resource that can be used to help facilitate self-understanding, resilience, and wellbeing for all. This has been successfully field-trialled in the Waikato region. I am now retired from clinical practice and I'm passionate about making 'The Gift Box' available as widely as possible. I would never have got my research published and made this on-going progress with my life's work if it hadn't been for Josephine's persistent encouragement. Thank you, Josephine!

Publications

Randal, P and Stanton, J (2022) Finding Hope in the Lived Experience of Psychosis: Reflections on Trauma, Use of Power and Re-visioning Psychiatry. Routledge, London.

Stanton, Josephine (2021) Debate: The role of inpatient units is to support community care. Child Adolesc Ment Health May. 26 (2): 184-185

Stanton, Josephine, Thomas, DR, Jarbin, M, MacKay, P (2020) Self-determination theory in acute child and adolescent mental health inpatient care. A qualitative exploratory study. PLOS ONE 15 (10). Click here to read and download.

Randal, P., Geekie, J., Lambrecht, I., & Taitimu, M. (2018 – second edition; 2008). Dissociation, psychosis, and spirituality: Whose voices are we hearing? In A. Moskowitz, I, Schafer & M. Dorahy (Eds) Psychosis, Trauma and Dissociation: Emerging Perspectives on Severe Psychopathology (pp. 333-345). Chichester: Wiley-Blackwell.

Wright, Tanya; Jowsey, Tanisha; Stanton, Josephine; et al. (2018) Patient experience of a psychiatric Mother Baby Unit. PLOS ONE 13 (5) e0198241

Stanton, Josephine; Lahdenpera, Viktor; Braun, Virginia (2017) Referral to an acute child and adolescent inpatient unit: The experiences and views of community mental health referrers. Qualitative health research., Vol.27(11), p.1664-1674

Stanton, Josephine; Randal, Patte (2016) Developing a psychiatrist-patient relationship when both people are doctors: a qualitative study. BMJ Open 6 (5) e010216

Stanton, J; Drake af Hagelsrum, and Stasiak, K (2015) Access to the internet in an acute child and adolescent mental health inpatient unit Australian and New Zealand Journal of Psychiatry 49 (5) 487-488

Stanton, Josephine; Drake af Hagelsrum, Emma; Stasiak, Karolina (2015) Access to the internet in an acute child and adolescent mental health inpatient unit. Australian and New Zealand Journal of Psychiatry: 49 (5) 487-488

Stanton, Josephine. (2012) More on narratives and conversations. Australian and New Zealand Journal of Psychiatry. 46 (5) 481

Cadario E, Stanton J, Nicholls P, Crengle S, Wouldes T, Gillard M, et al. (2012) A qualitative investigation of first-episode psychosis in adolescents. Clinical Child Psychology and Psychiatry. 17 (1):81-102.

Geekie, J; Randal, P; Lampshire, L; Read, J. (2011) Experiencing Psychosis; Personal and Professional Perspectives Routledge: London

Randal P; Chapter 7: Subjective experience of spirituality and psychosis. (2011) In Experiencing Psychosis; Personal and Professional Perspectives. (eds Geekie, J; Randal, P; Lampshire, L; Read, J). Routledge: London pp55-66 eBook

Stanton J; Randal P (2010) Doctors accessing mental-health services: an exploratory study. BMJ Open.; 1 (1):e000017.

Randal, P, Stewart, M.W., Proverbs, D., Lampshire, D., Symes, J., Hamer, H. (2009) “The Re-covery Model” – An integrative developmental stress-vulnerability-strengths approach to mental health. Psychosis: 1, 2:122-133.

Rosen, A; Wilson A; Randal P et al (2009) Psychiatrically Impaired Medical Practitioners: Better Care to Reduce Harm and Life Impact, with Special Reference to Impaired Psychiatrists. Australasian Psychiatry 17 (1); 11-18

Wilson A; Rosen A; Randal P; Pethebridge A et al (2009) Psychiatrically impaired medical practitioners: an overview with special reference to impaired psychiatrists. Australasian Psychiatry 17 (1); 6-10

Stanton, JM; Simpson, AIF (2006) The aftermath: aspects of recovery described by perpetrators of maternal filicide committed in the context of severe mental illness. Behavioural Sciences & the Law. 24: 103-12,

Randal P, Argyle N. (2005) “Spiritual Emergency” – A useful explanatory model? Spirituality SIG Publications archive and Newsletter 20. Royal College of Psychiatrists online newsletter.

Stanton, JM; Skipworth, J (2005) Obstacles to helpseeking. Retrospective accounts from perpetrators of intrafamilial homicide. Criminal Behavior & Mental Health, 15: 154-63

Stanton, JM (2005) Talking to families about ADHD
Journal of the American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry. 44(2):111-2 (comment, letter)

Armstrong, L, Randal, P. (2004) Spasmodic Dysphonia, a rare form of tardive dystonia, induced by low-dose risperidone? Australian and NZ Journal of Psychiatry (letter)

Randal, P, Simpson, AIF, Laidlaw T (2003). Can recovery-focussed multimodal psychotherapy facilitate symptom and function improvement in people with treatment-resistant psychotic illness? A comparative study. Australian and New Zealand Journal of Psychiatry; 37:720-727.

Stanton, JM (2003) Talking to families about ADHD Journal of the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry 42: 1386

Stanton, JM; Simpson, AIF (2002) Filicide: A review. International Journal of Law and Psychiatry 25: 1-14

Stanton, JM; Simpson, AIF (2001) Filicide Murder misdiagnosed as SIDS: A perpetrator’s perspective. Archives of Disease in Childhood 85 454-9

Stanton, JM; Simpson, AIF (2000) A qualitative study of filicide by mentally ill mothers. Child Abuse and Neglect 24 1451-1460

Simpson, AIF; Stanton, JM (2000) Maternal filicide: A reformulation of factors relevant to risk. Criminal Behaviour and Mental Health 10 138-149

Randal P. (1999) Loving Relationship is at the root of Recovery – Chapter in A Gift of Stories –gathered by Julie Leibrich. University of Otago Press/Mental Health Commission. 137-143

Stanton, JM (1999) Generational transmission of child maltreatment. Journal of the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry. 38 (12) 1469 (letter)

Stanton, JM; Arroll, B (1996) The effect of moderate exercise on mood in mildly hypertensive volunteers: a randomized controlled trial. Journal of Psychosomatic Research. 40 (6): 637-642

Stanton, JM. (1995) Weight gain associated with antipsychotic medication: a review. Schizophrenia Bulletin. 21(3): 463-472

Randal, P. (1995) Divining Psychiatry. Australasian Psychiatry Vol3, No 6. 393-397

Stanton, J. (1993) Australian multicentre moclobomide trial. (letter) Australian and New Zealand Journal of Psychiatry: 27:158

Cole, PC (1977) Pulse Diagnosis and the practice of Acupuncture in Britain
(D Phil Thesis. Sussex University Library)

How to contact us

Talk That Heals

PO Box 256
Kaitaia 0441
New Zealand

Email: info@talkthatheals.org